Group 42-Sells Out! - The Information Archive/Group 42 Sells Out (Group 42) (1996).iso/drugs/psychade/hbwr.txt

Text File | 1995-11-30 | 39KB | 692 lines

I saw the posting about the Hawaiian Baby Rosewood seeds, and Wanted to throw
in my two cents...

        Last night, two of my friends and I decided to try Hawaiian Baby
Rosewood seeds. We went to the local head shop and got ten each, took them home
and set out to remove any coating. We had heard/read that we should take
anywhere from 6-15 seeds each, and after consulting with the clerk, who we
knew, and had done them on several occasions, we settled on 8 each, expecting a
fairly decent trip.
        We got them home and scraped off all of the coating to the best of our
ability, and then washed them off. We were carefull to remove all of the
coating, scraping off the coating and part of the shell with x-acto knives.
(Realizing that we'd still get part of the coating, but still wishing to keep
it to a minimum.)
        After scraping and washing, we crushed the seeds up and placed them
aside for later. 'K' and 'G' had to work, so we were going to do them when they
got off.
        Around 9pm 'K' and 'G' came over and we downed the seeds. I had not
eaten for about 6hrs, 'K' for about 3, and 'G' had just eaten.
        After 15 min. I had started to feel the effects. The onset was like
being dizzy, or groggy after having just gotten up. In about 20 min, K started
to feel the same effects while G just felt sick to his stomach. This feeling of
groggyness persisted until 10:30, when I proceeded to throw up violently. K
said he was feeling fine, and was beginning to have what he termed "A really
mellow trip" G still only felt sick.
        I felt much better after my episode, but was still feeling drained, so
I decided to leave K and G and go to bed. This is what they told me happened to
them. They went to get something to eat around 12:30 (when I went to bed). they
walked around in some woods near where we live, and said it was pleasant. Quite
like a very mild trip, then around 2:00, they split up and went home thinking
it was over.
        When G got home (about 2:30) he said he became violently ill, and lost
everything he had eaten the entire day. He then tried to go to sleep.
        K said he went home and tried to sleep, but found himself peaking,
experiencing a dizzying trip with very intense tactile, and visual
hallucinations. He got up from bed and ended up wandering over to G's house
without putting on any additional clothing (wearing only bed-shorts) and then
sitting on his steps crying. G didn't experience this sort of peak at all, and
found that he was able to calm K down by talking him out of it. (K said
afterwards it was like he imagined a bad trip being like. We have done acid on
*many* occasions together, and have *never* had a bad experience with acid).
After G talked him down, they both managed to sleep, and awoke today feeling a
little hungry, and just generally groggy.
        Meanwhile, I had gone home, still feeling a bit queasy, and decided
that I needed sleep more than anything, so I laid down (at 12:30 or so) and
tried to sleep. I managed to get to sleep okay, my stomach still aching a bit,
and slept fine until 3:30.
        At 3:30 I awoke in the midsts of the most intense trip I have ever
experienced. My thoughts were totally random and I was experiencing *intense*
visuals from the moonlight shadows in my room. I managed to stand up, and found
that so incredibly difficult that I had to lay back down. My roomate then came
out of his room to go to the bathroom, and I found this to be more than I could
take... His image against the shadows in my room through me into some really
wild hallicinations of wolves and various creatures devouring my flesh. In
addition to the visuals, I was getting *major* tactile hallucinations from my
sheets. My skin felt like I was being tickled everywhere, and was in the throws
of a major orgasm. (Not unpleasant mind you ;) However it was a bit too intense
for my tastes. I had several hallucinations of animal images, combined with the
urge to run. I contemplated running over to see K and G and if they were having
this stuff happen too, but when my roomate appeared, I was too scared to move
much. I found it extremely difficult to diferentiate between reality and my
hallucinations. (I didn't like this aspect of it at all. When I trip on acid, I
usually find that, even though I do hallucinate, I am still conscious of the
fact that they are only hallucinations. On the seeds I really couldn't tell.)
        After laying there hallucinating I fell asleep. I don't know how long I
was hallucinating, I was really not interested in timing it either. Around 10,
I woke up, and my stomach really hurt. (could have been the seeds, could have
been the vomit...) I managed to get something to eat and return to sleeping for
a while. I woke up again at noon, feeling well rested, but a bit groggy. I've
been in that same groggy state all day.

        Overall, I'll say that it was worth the experiment to satisfy my
curiosity. However, I will not be trying these things again. Ever. First, I
have a no vomit rule about drugs... that's why I gave up drinking. Second, I
didn't find the peak as thrilling, or as fun as LSD. I still think Acid has the
most bang for buck, and give much more pleasurable feelings while peaking.
Perhaps the dose was just too high, but based on the feelings in my stomach, I
think I'll just stick to good ol' LSD and MJ.

==========================================================================

I recently tried a new route of administration for Hawiian Baby Wood Rose
seeds.  Why?  Eating works fine, except for the unfortunate side effect that my
stomach is so tight I don't want to eat, drink, or move.

I tried the enema method recommended by a previous poster.  It was
dissappointing.  I ground ten seeds and blended them for an hour in distilled
water.  Then I filtered the sludge out and used a home enema kit to put the
brown juice up my ass.  I left it there for about ten minutes.  About half an
hour later, I felt a little something like a trip, but it quickly went away.

So what is my new method?  Chewing -- like tobacco.  I chewed six seeds without
spitting or swallowing for 15 minutes, then gagged and spit them out.  I
tripped about as hard as I would expect from eating four seeds, but with much
diminished side effects.  After the first hour I felt like drinking beer and
dancing (the don't-move period lasts three hours if I swallow the seeds).

My next experiment is to treat them *exactly* like tobacco, using a spittoon.
Maybe I can chew them that way for 30 minutes or more.  They are fairly cheap,
so doubling the quantity is not a problem.

============================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs

Some of you may remember that I posted a description of a rather ho-hum
Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seed (HBWS) trip a couple of weeks ago.  Last night,
a friend and I decided to make another attempt, with an increased dose, though
aware of the warning that

        high dosages are not advisable -- beyond a certain level,
        experience so far has shown a tendency for limbs to get
        bluish
                                        -- Psychedelics Encyclopedia

I soaked twenty seeds in hot tap water for two to three hours, then (despairing
of ever finding a mortar & pestle) smashed the seeds to a pulp with needle-
nose pliers and added more water to the seeds & water in a tupperware
container.  I then vigorously shook the container.  The water (strangely,
since the seeds are brown & white) turned pond-scum green, with lots of seed
chunks settling to the bottom.

I poured this mixture into two glasses, being careful to add the same
proportion of pond-scum-water:seed-chunks to both glasses.  My friend downed
the mixture in one big gulp, getting some more water to wash some of the seed
chunks from the side of the glass.  I took it much more slowly, and returned
for water a couple more times so I could get the seed chunks down.

My friend and I are both tall, thin men in our twenties.  I'm about 6'2", he's
perhaps an inch or two taller.  I weigh about 170 lbs, he is probably in that
area -- maybe 10-20 pounds more.  I say this for dosage reasons.  We're tall
fellows -- if you're 5'6" and weigh 130, you probably won't need as many seeds.
(Note of warning:  If you're pregnant, or think you might be, don't use HBWS
or other ergot-type hallucinogens unless you know /exactly/ what you are
doing.  These drugs can cause uterine contractions and may cause miscarriage)

To cut to the chase -- the trip was a "10" for both of us.  We've both
experienced many LSD trips, and between the two of us have sampled the delights
of MDMA and psilocin/cybin.  The HBWS trip ranked up there with the best.

It started soon but with a long slope.  As an illustration, an LSD trip might
be described like:

                ^_
               /  --___
              /        ----_____
             /                  ------_______
            /                                --------_________
- t ------------|-------------------------------------------------------
             30 min.

with a quick peak that's very intense, and then several hours of slowly
returning to consensus reality.  The HBWS trip was more like:


                              __-____
                       ____---       -----______
            ______-----                         -------________
- t ----------------------------|---------------------------------------
                             3 hours

Also, the peak was much less intense.  Overall, much much less visual and
audio and other sensory hallucinations than with LSD.  Visuals were mostly
forced for diagnostic reasons, audio was great, but not LSD-profound.

But the mind-food -- the intellectual games -- were amazingly good.  And the
real bonus is that conversation is very easy (on LSD, I often find that I get
lost in that enormous jungle of symbols between the beginning of a sentence
and it's terminating punctuation mark, making linguistic communication with
other people a real chore at times).  I could talk and form sentences and
such with no more difficulty than usual (and in fact, I felt that my ability
to do so was even heightened -- my friend commented at one point that "I have
an idea, and the words just /come/!  It's incredible!"), but I had much more
to talk about than usual.

Based on my previous experience, we expected a short trip with little mind-
blowing.  We took the brew at about 7:00PM and were up until 4:30AM talking
almost non-stop metaphysics with two other people who were completely sober.
I'm still feeling the effects now, at about 11:00AM.  At 4:30 I settled down
to sleep and was pleasantly surprised to find that sleep came easily and that
the sleep was deep and very satisfying.  (On LSD, I find it very difficult to
get to sleep until I have come way down from the trip).

If you enjoy LSD, I strongly urge you to give this stuff a try.  "...of the
jungle" sells HBWS at 11 seeds for $2.50, or 100 for $10.00.  T.A.E. sells
'em at $25 per 1/2 oz., $40/oz., $110/4oz. and $450/lb.  If the ones you get
are crusty on the outside, like maybe the inside of a walnut shell, you should
crack this pod open and just use the smooth seed inside.  I suspect that the
outer coating is what causes nausea in some people.


===========================================================================

An experience with Hawaiian Baby Woodrose (Argyreia nervosa) Seeds.

I found myself ahead on a writing deadline and with nothing to do on a
Tuesday afternoon, so I decided to experiment with Hawaiian Baby Woodrose
Seeds.  Although I had eaten a large meal the night before, I had had nothing
to eat during the day, and so I hoped to avoid the nausea that had been
reported by some users.  This nausea is attributed either to the seeds
themselves, or to coatings supposedly put on seeds by seed companies to
discourage this sort of thing, depending on who you talk to.  A third
suspicion of mine was that people were more likely to try morning glory seeds
than HBWR seeds, and that it takes a whole lot more of the former to feel any
effects, and that it was the sheer quantity of the seeds that was causing
nausea in these people.  In any case, I'm writing this at about 2:05PM and
will find out shortly...  :-`

HBWR seeds, like morning glory seeds, contain such nicely active ingredients
as d-lysergic acid amide and d-isolysergic acid amide (a.k.a. ergine &
isoergine) which are close relatives of your old friend and pal (can you
believe she's 50?) d-lysergic acid diethylamide (a.k.a. LSD).  According to
Peter Stafford's "Psychedelics Encyclopedia" (3rd Expanded Edition, pp. 98-99):

        "Lysergic acid amides are quite concentrated in the seeds
         of this ornamental, much more so than in psychedelic
         morning glories.  Four to six seeds (the contents of one
         or two pods) are the equivalent of 100 to 150 Ipomoea
         morning glory seeds and will produce a full-blown experience.
         The result is generally more tranquil than what is induced
         by LSD.  While LSD is perceived by most users as having
         stimulant effects, to which a few people are particularly
         sensitive, the botanical sources have more of a slowing or
         depressant effect.  Some users complain that they have had
         a hangover, which has been characterized by Emboden as
         possibly involving `nausea, vertigo, blurred vision and
         physical inertia.'  More often, however, these seeds have
         invigorated their users, leaving them feeling as though
         they had been on vacation afterwards."

Stafford recommended (with Morning Glories) that "seeds should be ground to a
flour before use; it's also a good idea to soak them in water -- the
psychoactive components are soluble -- and then to strain the liquid through
cheesecloth.  The amides of value are in the liquid, which is ready for
consumption."  I did not follow this advice directly -- I soaked the whole
seeds and put them in a blender.

I was also unable to find motion sickness tablets at the supermarket, and so
am not testing out another piece of advice that was given to me -- take
some dramamine before the seeds to reduce nausea.

Also mentioned by Stafford was that "high dosages are not advisable -- beyond
a certain level, experience so far has shown a tendency for limbs to get
bluish" (perhaps by the same gangrene-producing effect as that produced by
the ergot fungus in `ergotism').  I decided to look out for this effect as
best as I could.

1:30 PM -- I covered six seeds with hot tap water in a small bowl.
1:50 PM -- I poured the seeds and water into a small food processor and
        chopped the seeds as well as I could.  It was a bit like chopping
        up small, soft rocks.  I then added some orange juice, a few
        frozen cherries, raspberries, and strawberries, and blended for
        another minute or so.
2:00 PM -- I began to drink the resulting mixture, and I packed a small
        bowl of marijuana to smoke to combat possible nausea.  My hope was
        that the effects of the marijuana would have vanished by the time
        the HBWR seeds began to work their wonders.
2:15 PM -- I am nicely high and reaching the bottom of my psychic smoothie.
2:25 PM -- I am very high and have finished off said smoothie.
2:45 PM -- Wow, that was great dope.  No nausea yet.
3:10 PM -- Got munchies; had some soda crackers.  No nausea or other ill
        effects.  Still feel pleasantly high.  I cannot tell at this juncture
        whether this is just good dope or whether HWBR are starting up.
3:45 PM -- At this point I am experiencing nothing that I cannot plausably
        attribute to lingering marijuana effects.
4:00 PM -- By now, I would have expected the marijuana effects to have
        just about ended.  I'm experiencing mild visual distortions (walls
        breathing) and some tactile enhancement (carpet between my toes feels
        nice).  Nothing like a "full-blown experience" yet.  Also, there is
        very minor auditory enhancement, and some of those LSD leg jitters
        (wanting to keep time to some beat about 4x/second).
4:30 PM -- Became sleepy, started to doze off during "Voodoo Chile."  Was
        awakened by bass guitar shaking my left foot.  Still no nausea or
        ill effects, but I'm most definately stoned.  Sort of like LSD, but
        without the early rush.  More like what LSD would be like if you
        missed the first four hours.  Either that, or I'm just starting the
        climb.
5:05 PM -- No increase in effects.  If this is all there is, I'm not too
        impressed.
5:30 PM -- Doesn't seem to be going anywhere.  I just feel mildly strange
        and slightly uncoordinated.
6:00 PM -- Still slightly stoned.  Ate vegies and bread and cheese.  Not much
        happening.  I think I'll try a few more seeds next time and see how
        that works.  This must be one of those "physical inertia" trips...
        Oh well, better luck next time.
7:35 PM -- Am almost completely down.  In retrospect, it wasn't completely
        unexciting, and with the right set and setting might have been very
        nice.  Very mellow, though.  Not too much going on.  Much less
        auditory effects than I would expect from LSD or marijuana.  No limb
        bluing, no nausea.

=============================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs

        Well, yesterday a FOAF and his friends had their first
experience with Hawiian Baby Wood Rose seeds, which my FOAF later
dubbed "The wacky russian rulette of acid".  Four people ate the
seeds, three of them tripped, each with varying degrees of intensity.
They had some wisdom that they thought I should pass on to the net.

        One thing to keep in mind is that these seeds are naturally
growing botanicals and due to each plants idiosyncracies one cannot
reliably estimate how much LSA one is ingesting by the number of
seeds you eat.  One of my FOAF's friends ate three seeds and had a
typical mild acid trip (intense colors, trails, and mild
synthenesia).  Another one had nine seeds and got absolutely no
effect.  Two others ate nine and had moderate trips, one good and one
not so good (more later).  My FOAF had twenty seeds and had the most
intense trip of his life, including phantom music, very intense and
dramatic synthenesia, and occasional withdrawls from reality, where
his normal vision was completely obscured by intense patterns and
colors... kinda scary sometimes.  As you can see, your milage may
vary.

        No one got physically ill as a result of taking the seeds,
although one of my FOAF's friends admitted, after eating the seeds,
that he thought he might be coming down with the flu.  STUPID!  Twice
during the evening he began to feel nausiated and dizzy, and when he
did, he correspondingly reported having "uncool" experiences and went
off by himself for a while.  This morning he is down but suffering
from the flu.

        Although the seeds have a reputation as being "weak" acid, my
FOAF would not recommend that they are eaten by the unexperienced
user, since they had such a wide range of effectiveness.  Getting
acid with a reliable mic count would be a better way to go at first,
to add a bit more control to the already unpredictable activity of
dropping.

        That's all for now.  I hope this is of use to someone.  I've
learned much from alt.drugs, and it's good to return the favor!

=============================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs

        Yet another Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seed Experiment
        (or how I learned to loathe myself and respect ergot alkaloids)

Here's the situation, kids; see if you can find where I went horribly,
tragically wrong:  Several weeks ago, over a period of a couple of months,
my lover and I of four and a half years broke up, I lost my job and
subsequently my home, and had a brief fling which punched holes in my
reputation and self-image.

Still managing to convince myself that I was the free-spirit, untouched by
the illusionary material world, I put on a happy face et cetera.  A few days
ago, however, I started to dwell on thoughts of self-doubt, worry, mild
paranoia, and depression.

Drum roll please.

So I thought I'd take a psychedelic drug and see if that helped to put things
back in perspective.

WRONG!  What, was I out of my mind?  Lesson number one in the psychedelic
universe:  Don't use a psychedelic drug as a mood-lifter, to escape bad
feelings, or to make a bad situation better.  It don't work that way.

The pharmacological details:  A couple of days prior to the experiment, I
ground up fifty Hawaiian Baby Woodrose (Argyreia nervosa) seeds in a mortar
and pestle, and put the resulting powder into gel caps.  There were about
3.5 seeds per gel cap, with even potency across all of the gel caps.

Part of the motivation for my experiment was to test the potency/toxicity of
the seeds taken in this manner.  I had taken ten seeds, cracked in water,
and had a terrific trip; and I had taken twelve seeds in a similar way and
been wracked with nausea, stupor, and a generally bad time.

So I took two capsules, what I expected to be about 2/3rds of a real dose.
My notes follow (indented) with comments (not indented):

        1 PM - two caps

I had also been taking ginseng fairly regularly for the previous week or two,
and I don't know how these two drugs might have reacted.  What I believed I
had been noticing from the ginseng were the following symptoms:  a) increased
creativity, b) more alertness without caffeine jitteryness, c) slight paranoia.
Of course any of the above could also be the result of a placebo effect, or
of the emotional turmoil in my life.

I was not taking any other drugs at the time.  I had smoked a good hunk of
weed the previous afternoon.

        1:30 - slight runs, tight bridge of nose

The slight runs were slightly loose bowels, I included them in my notes
without knowing whether or not they represented the first symptoms of nausea.
In the aftermath, I'd say that it was just coincidence.  The tight bridge of
nose was one of those bells that goes off in my mind and says to me, "remember,
you just took a psychedelic and here it comes!"

        1:35 - tight top of head

Similarly.

        1:45 - stomach grumbling

This was probably caused more by the drug, but I'm not sure.  There wasn't
much nausea (thank God) at all this time.  A little bit hit me at one point,
but nothing in itself particularly bothersome.

        2:40 - very slight nausea twinge, some peripheral visual
        distortion[, ] cold feet

There is the nausea I was talking about.  By "twinge," I mean that it was
noticable, but not lasting.  A moment would come and I would say, "gee, I
feel kind of sick to my stomach," but then it would go away.  Could be
explained by just the psychedelic coenesthetic fuzziness, but I don't think
I was tripping that hard yet.  Cold feet was a "just in case" marker for me.
Stafford's "Psychedelics Encyclopedia" mentions that ergot alkaloids like
those in HBWS and MGS can at higher doses cause the limbs to turn bluish.
(See: ergotism).  So far this hasn't happened to me, but I try to be alert
for the effects.  It was a chilly day, and my feet were propped up, so I think
it was not a drug effect.

        2:50 - More tummy rumbles.
        3:00 - Take 500 mg C - folklore

I'm two hours into the dose and not getting much out of it but some slight
peripheral vision fuzziness and motion, and a weird overall feeling.  So I
try to augment the trip with Vitamin C.  I have no idea if this works or not,
but it's everpresent acid folklore, and it's harmless as far as I know.

        4:15 - Tired, amotivational[, ] Somewhat trippy.

I think the trip started right about here - three hours and fifteen minutes
after taking the powdered seeds.  That's something I should stress right off
the bat about HBWS - the curve is very very different from that of LSD.  On
LSD, you accelerate quickly to the peak (within an hour or two of taking the
drug), and then spend another couple of hours or more at the peak before
sliding slowly down to baseline.

With HBWR, you spend the first three to six hours just climbing to the peak,
and then a shorter time falling back to baseline.  I don't think I reached the
peak until six or seven at night - five or six hours after taking the
capsules.  Quite a long ride, with none of the "it's all downhill from here"
sense that you get if things get confusing on acid.

        6:00 - emotionally depressed
             - No, make that fucking despondent

By this time things had started to go bad.  I tried all of the traditional
things to swing things around:  Went to the bathroom, made some food, took a
walk in the fresh air, turned on more lights, changed the music.  Nothing
worked.

I was feeling the beginnings of what would be a very panicked depressive
episode.  Nobody loved me, even the people I thought were my friends were
really annoyed with me and talked about me behind my back, my pretensions
had become such an integral part of my self-image that seeing them shattered
was destroying my identity.  I felt that if people knew who I really was, they
would be disgusted or frightened and run away, and so I had to wear a mask,
which of course was another way of keeping people at a distance from my real
self, so there was no way I could win...

Whew.  It was bad, folks.  Going for a quick-paced walk helped, but only by
keeping my mind busy thinking about route and traffic lights and whether or
not it was going to rain.  Overall the mood was still bad.  I stopped by a
donut shop to get a chocolate-covered devil's food donut with chocolate chips.
Chocolate is another of my temperamental mood-lifters that I've kept in my
bag of acid trips for that rainy day when I need it.  But the wisdom of this
decision didn't stand up; I thought that when I crashed from the sugar high
things would just be that much worse.  So I tossed the donut away.

        7:00 - Still depressed - some anaesthesia - pinches don't
                hurt as much as they should.  Tripping at about
                maximum so far, but wish it would stop.

I should note at this point that there is a history of depression in my
family, my younger brother is taking medication for depression, and most of
the women on my mother's side of the family seem to have had some sort of
breakdown in their past.  So far, except for a period of bad depression in
adolescence (which could have just been adolescence, of course), I've escaped
in terrific shape.  My mood has been generally good, and my psychedelic trips
have been 95% wonderful.

But, after a few hours of this nonsense, I was convinced that my bad mood and
such over the previous days was part of a spiral into mental illness and that
I was going straight to the funny farm.  I was exhibiting a lot of the signs
of a panic attack and severe depression, and I wasn't sure how much I could
attribute to the drug, and how much was just me.

Remember that I had taken what I thought was 2/3rds of a good dose of HBWS,
which I translated as about 2/3rds again of a reasonable dose of LSD.  In
other words, about half a hit: small potatoes for a veteran tripper.

The anaesthesia I'm talking about was kind of interesting.  At one point, I
pinched the web of skin between my thumb and finger, and although I could
feel the pain, it didn't seem to mean anything to me.  So I pinched harder.
Sure enough, the pain increased slightly, but it still didn't mean anything
to me.  So I pinched as hard as I could.  Still, no injury I could get
excited about, although there was clearly some tissue trauma.

Two things of note:  One, this may have been an effect of the drug, and if so,
is a new one to me.  Two, severely depressed people sometimes engage in self-
mutilation, and this may have been an inkling of that for me.

        7:22 - Niacin

At this point I remembered another bit of folklore - the "niacin abort."  I
decided to give it a try.  I took one 100 mg tablet of niacin.  I don't know
if it did any good or not.

A little after this point - I was alone in the apartment, and had been alone
through the whole trip - I called a very good friend and trip buddy, telling
him that "I'm having a bad trip and I can't get out."  I felt very ashamed,
because one of my own rules for drug taking is that I can't use drugs to put
obligations on other people.  But my friend was happy to help me out, and was
a soothing voice and a shoulder to lean on when I really, really needed one.

By this time, I felt like a raving nut.  I would prop up my face in my hands,
then cover my mouth with my hands, then bite my fingers, then rub my nose,
then rub my hands through my hair, then rub my eyes, then bite my thumbnail,
then lean my chin on my hand - all in the course of a couple of seconds.  I
thought that I probably sounded like that woman in the diner in the movie
"Slacker."  ("You shouldn't.  You should not.  You should't.  You shouldn't.
You shouldn't traumatize a woman sexually.  You shouldn't.  You should not...")

Except that my dialogue was at the same time more coherent and more troubled:
"I feel so alienated.  I look at people.  I look at them talk.  I look at
people talk and I can't understand them.  I mean I understand what they are
saying, and I know what the words mean, but I don't understand the transaction
that's taking place.  I don't know the rules.  I try to talk, but people look
at me and expect me to say more and I don't know the rules.  I look at people
and I don't understand.  Nobody knows who I am.  I can't understand them.  I'm
trying to say I feel alienated.  Like I'm not one of them.  They're doing
something when they talk and it's not in the words and I can't understand what
it is."

I mean, really, really, bonkers call the men in the white suits stuff.  Most
of the above was in reference to a party I went to the night before where I
didn't know very many of the people in attendance.  They had social conventions
in common, and shared interests (Star Trek and the Rocky Horror Picture Show)
that I did not share with them, so in a way it was as though I'd landed on
another planet.  But my feelings of alienation had been extrapolated to include
the whole human race.

It was bad.  I have new understanding for the tales of people who took acid
and committed suicide.  For a long time I thought of these tales as drug war
propaganda or coincidence.  Now I have a little more understanding of how a
pre-existing depression could be catapulted into a state of absolute hopeless-
ness under the influence of a psychedelic.

        9:10 - Coming down finally.

And rapidly, too.  The whole coming-down time seemed to take about fifteen
minutes.  One minute I was babbling nonsense and biting my fingers, the next
minute I'm sipping tea and putting some Paul Simon on the CD player.  Perhaps
the niacin took effect, or maybe thats the unfamiliar HBWS curve again.

What lessons can the readers of alt.drugs get from my tale of woe?  HBWS did
not give me a bad trip.  HBWS gave me a powerful trip that was bad because of
the soil the seeds were planted in: an emotionally troubled mind.  HBWS is
powerful juju.  It's not a poor substitute for the real thing; it IS the real
thing.  My recommendation:  Do not trip on a psychedelic drug if you're in a
bad mood, depressed, or suffering from some sort of emotional turmoil.  And,
finally, think twice about tripping alone.

Personally, I'm going to stay away from drugs, ginseng, chocolate, and
concentrated sugar for a couple of weeks at least, just to do an evaluation
of where my head's at and make sure I'm not falling prey to the family curse.
I feel much better this morning (last night I was sure I'd never recover),
although a bit apprehensive.  I'm going to treat psychedelics in a much more
reverent fashion from here on out, and tread more lightly on my mind.
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Newsgroups: alt.drugs

I had a really bad trip on these once, good at first, like being drunk
with trippy visuals.Then everything started to spin and I got sick. I
became really scared and convinced that I was going to die. I had to go
to a friends house to chill out when it was all over. Never again...
Spend your money on good blotter or 'shrooms, but you *really* might want
to stay away from this one....

=============================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs

I have been following the thread on HBWR and felt it about time to
share my own experiences in the area.  By no means am I refuting anything
already said, I am only offering my own experience for consideration to
those willing to listen.  I like the seeds.  I have had rather nice
experiences with them and will continue to use them from time to time.
The worst physical side effect I have had from them was stomach cramping
and that was without dramamine.  The method I have used with the seeds is
fairly simple.  I grind up the number I am going to ingest and then soak
them in water for an hour or two.  Then I drain the water so as to seperate
the seed matter from it.  I toss the seed matter away (I don't remember
where, perhaps Jonathon Ott, I'll check, but anyways, I remember reading
that the alkaloids responsible for much of the toxic symptoms are not water
soluble and therefore will remain in the seed matter).  Anyways, the
resulting drink I am left with I ingest over 30-45 minutes.  This also
seems to reduce the bad effects.  The only part I find annoying is the
lethargy, but that seems to be overcome by setting as I have had many
enjoyable walks while under the effects although the first few steps took
one hell of a lot of will power.  I would suggest though that anyone
interested in exploring these start out with a small amount and work their
way up.  A previous poster mentioned 20-30 seeds.  I personally would never
take that many seeds, at least not at this point in time.  my max currently
is about 13 or so.  My first time was with 8 or 9.  Well, hopefully someone
found this to be of some value.

=============================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs

After not reading for a while, I tried to catch up
with the news and read several negative posts concerning
Hawaiin Babay Woodrose Seeds, so I thought Id relate
my experience with them.  First off, my one time with
them (Havent really had 8 hours to blow on them),
about 2 weeks ago had some litigating circumstances
which could have effected them.  First I had only
2 hours of sleep the night before, and second I took
8 of them(with the white fungus coating scraped off)
at about midnight.  About 3 minutes after completely
chewing them, I began feeling really slow and lazy,
and got pretty hot and uncomfortanble(i had not taken any dramamine).  I got
the dry heaves a few times, but since I hadnt eaten in
hours, I was OK.  After about 40 minutes of this hot,
nausious(sp?) really lazy feeling, with no trippy results,
I said, forget it! and went to bed. About an hour and a half
later I woke up feeling like I was on a boat in a hurricane.
My equilibrium was completely out of whack, so I got up to get
some water.  When I went into the bathroom and looked in the mirror,
I saw that my pupils were the size of the entire iris, so guessing that
the seeds had worked, I stepped back about a foot and began to stare at
myself to see what would happen.
  Unfortunately, I had taken my lenses out to go to sleep so I was now nearly
blind, however, sure enough, I began to warp and twist and invert into myself.
I also noticed at this point that the dizzy feeling was gone and now
I actually felt rather euphoric.  I noticed that the walls were breathing
rather gently.  I spent the next few hours experimenting and pretty much
determined that I could will what would happen(i.e., I could stare at
my hand and make my fingers grow really long, etc). I spent a few minutes
talking to the ceiling(those circular light holes sure look like mouths,
especially when their breathing).  I only got to talk to one person that night
and the floor was breathing, and he kept rising and falling about a foot and a
half up and down, rather amusingly.  Anyway, by four or so I began feeling
really tired so I tried to go back to bed.  Unfortunately I couldnt stay
asleep for more than a few minutes at a time as anytime I laid down, that
dizzy, off balance feeling returned, yet whenever I stood or sat, I felt
really close to euphoria.  Finally got to sleep at about 8, and didnt wake
up until 3 or so, and felt really strung out the rest of the day.

Im hoping that next time I try these, its with sleep, and dramamine and
a little earlier in the day, but overall I rather enjoyed the exp.
CHUCK

=============================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs

Two different shipments of HBWR seeds from the same source, two years apart.

#1 (then):  Seeds were light brown and had concave spots with a very hard
shell.  ~150 mg.

#2 (now):  Seeds are dark brown and *hairy*.  They are almost double the
size (~275 mg).  Convex, with an equally hard shell.

What's the deal?  Were the old ones immature?  What about potency?
These new things scare me!

=============================================================================

Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.hemp

        Well I sent off to T.A.E for some Baby Wood Rose Seeds
        and they convinced me to get the sample kit which
        consisted of maybe 200 hemp seeds (precooked), about
        25 each of Wood Rose and Baby Wood Rose seeds.  A friend
        and I rubbed the hairs off of 8 Baby Wood Rose seeds,
        ground them to a pulp in a mortar and pestle, split it in
        half, mixed it with a cup of coffee and drank the mix.
        We had to spoon out the grit ( the ground Baby Wood Rose Seeds)
        out because it all sunk to the bottom.  When I did this
        it tasted exactly like what really good blotter tastes like,
        but the taste went away pretty quickly.  There was no
        ensuing trip.  Anyone have any comments?